Good one, Coded...
Juan Viejo2
JoinedPosts by Juan Viejo2
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116
Creationist Should Dismiss Genesis Quickly
by Coded Logic inchris tann,.
in your earlier post you seemed to be under the impression that genesis and science were somehow compatible .
however, the truth is the two are not reconcilable at all.
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Barbara Anderson scheduled to appear on "Chuck Morse Speaks" from 11-12 AM ET on November 11, 2014
by ABibleStudent ini found out that barbara anderson is scheduled to talk about the watchtower's child abuse problems on chuck morse speaks from 11-12 am et on november 11, 2014 about child protection and/or sol reform.. .
to listen to podcasts for $0.99/month, click on this link chuck morse speaks.. .
to listen to chuck morse's show 'chuck morse speaks" on the radio, complete an information form for the irn usa network using this link: station finder | irn usa radio.. .
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Juan Viejo2
An edited version will be available on line during the 3rd week of November. There will be both a audio version and a video version available.
JV
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35
Earth rotates the wrong way. ( no one even knew that )
by kairos ini've heard it mentioned a few times.. the rotating earth graphic in the background on jwtv rotates backwards.. i've mentioned it to the active and they are not concerned at all.. my response is, "it's something they are portraying that cannot be more wrong".. .
two gb members have stood in front of it telling us to trust them.
how can you when they think the sun rises in the west.... .
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Juan Viejo2
Maybe the GB has confirmed that the South Pole is really the top of the world, not the North Pole. We know that the North Pole was predominent because 80% of civilization lived in the northern hemisphere when map making began. It was thought that the North Pole was the "top of the world." I don't know of any reason why the north pole has to be at the top except that near it is "magnetic north" - so our compass needles all point in that direction. However, scientists tell us that the geographic/magnetic North Pole is actually the south magnetic pole. So we could turn our maps upside down, put the South Pole at the top, let the earth rotate backward and change all of our clocks and maps. We could still leave Greenwich as the center point for time, except our clocks would go backward.
But we live by the traditions and guidelines developed by the Greeks and Romans - although the Babylonians and Egyptians were no slouches either. And we also have to give the ancient Arabs their due as well - since most of their mathmatics, map making, and geography systems still form the basis of our modern science standards.
Maybe in the New World Jehovah will order that New Light be directed from the south instead of the north and that the world will spin in the opposite direction.
JV
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14
This should be an interesting book to read
by Doug Mason ini have not yet read this book, but it should be interesting:.
"the better angels of our nature: why violence has declined", steven pinker.. the publicity blurb states:.
"believe it or not, today we may be living in the most peaceful moment in our species' existence.
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Juan Viejo2
You can get a good idea of the message of the book by listening to his speech on the subject. Here is the version given at Yale University. Long, but very engaging. It will give you new insight about our age. Is it really more violent? Are we worse than we were in the Middle Ages or even a century ago?
Well worth your time. Get a snack and something to drink and hunker down. You will never forget this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsuCGc-Rw3Y
JV
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14
Help me keep this site active
by Old Goat inthe watch tower history blog is the best out there.
the owners are considering shutting it down for lack of blog visits.
maybe a visit and a comment would help keep it alive.. http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.
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Juan Viejo2
Old Goat -
Blogspot is not the place to host your site. Blogger.com (supported by Google) was never intended and does not work well for a stand alone site. The only way to get visitors is to go out and post links on other discussion sites (Topix, Yahoo! Answers, etc.) or create a mailling list and send everyone on the list a notice that you have posted something and then ask them to share the links with their friends.
Wordpress.com is similar, but is paid for by ads from Adsense, etc. But the plan is the same as most Blogger and Wordpress.com sites are mostly ignored by search engines and are rarely found in the top ten pages of any search.
I would suggest that you offer your articles to another blogger who is looking for material and let them archive your posts or integrate them within their own blog. The problem there is finding another blogger who has your same interests, point of view, and religious leanings. A very religious blog will not do well on one hosted by an atheist and will find little support among the masses of JW readers.
Bravehost is another hosting service that has hundreds of articles and posts regarding JW scandals and personalities. But again, they are poorly ranked and indexed on any of the search engines so are hard to find. Most get their readers from JWN, Freeminds and other JW discussion sites that provide an occasional link to a good article or two.
So again - my suggestion is that you find another blogger who would agree to take over an archive your Blogger posts on their own site and then credit them to you. Pick carefully - your host should be on the same wavelength as you or else the relationship will not work.
JV
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Juan Viejo2
This morning my contact who speaks on occasion with Bethel insiders (many are in WT Legal) gave me a quick call. He told me that he would have to be very careful what he shared because he didn't want to give himself away, but he did share this much:
Many of the attorneys at WT Legal are worried that they may have pushed the judge on the Lopez case too far by ignoring his orders and then appealing directly to higher courts. They are also worried that in future cases this approach may poison the well for them - even in cases that are relatively weak. One of his contacts indicated that this strategy may not have been encouraged by anyone in the legal team, but may have been determined by the GB or even Losch himself. The legal teams are afraid that they may be going into future cases with their guns empty and the plaintiffs attorneys ready to spring that fact (Watchtower refusal to obey court directives) to the court early in the procedings.
While appeal courts and the state supreme courts must rule on the merits of each case, the fact that the Catholic Church took a similar approach and lost badly (in California, very badly), the fact that the Watchtower has refused to respond to a judge's order will surely be recognized and expected as a strategy they will use in future cases. Whether this has any noticeable effect on the Conti appeal is unknown, and the court would certainly indicate that each case stands alone and has no effect on any other cases in their docket, for the future the Watchtower's "go f*** yourself - we answer to a higher law" response to court orders can not help them in the long run.
Looks like the Watchtower may be lining itself up for an early US Supreme Court appeal. They have done well there in the past and the current court tends to bend over backward to appease the religious wackos who appear before them (abortion, contraception, monuments, church use for secular activities, zoning laws, etc.). The only thing really working against them is the fact that they have few supporters within the Christian Right, with the possible exception of the Mormons and Scientology. They are also not political, so they can't help the Republican and Right Wing voting block even if they do win their case. The only reason the Christian Right would ever come to their aid is to enhance their own protections against lawsuits directed toward so many of their sect and mega-church leaders who have been involved in sexual deviance and child abuse cases. They may want to push this now before the court has a chance to become more Liberal leaning. Timing is everything.
They are watching and eagerly waiting to see how the California Appeals Court rules on Conti. That will be the standard that they will have to wrap their future strategies around.
My contact admits the most of his connections work outside of the child abuse cases loop, but they are on the fringes. Patterson is abuzz over the Lopez case and everyone there secretly peruses JWN, JWSurvey and Watchtower Documents. But never on the campus. They use only their own personal cell phones, pads, and laptops and only when they are away from WT HQ. Every email, upload, download and voicemail message transmitted there is being monitored 24 hours a day and IP addresses are being tracked. A few have two smartphones, one set aside for just this purpose.
A few have admitted that they feel like they are working inside the CIA, rather than a religious organization. No one really trusts anyone else. A few have have been burned badly by trusting the wrong person, someone who they were convinced was as reliable as they were. A few are seen packing up and being escorted to the travel vans every month. No one is ever sure why. Those who continue on are staying for shorter periods than was typical just ten or fifteen years ago. Looks like the average stay at one of the Bethel facilities has now fallen below the 24 month mark. There are also fewer younger volunteers. Many who are arriving are pioneers who have been in the field for several years and have held elder positions, with an average age well above 30.
In any case, this is all second and third hand - so take it with cup of salt. I am just the mail man. But it will be interesting to look back in 24 months and see how close this insider gossip came to predicting actual events.
JV
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15
How did the term "The Truth" come about?
by FeelingFree ini just wondering how this vile term came to be used in constant referral to the org, i really, really hate it!
it's only since coming out that i have realised how much the jdubs use it.
everything is the truth this and the truth that.
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Juan Viejo2
When I was just a little kid in the early 1950s, the term/code name ["The Truth"] for Jehovah's Witnesses was just beginning to be used interchangeably with the generic term "God's Organization" and "God's People."
After Nathan Knorr took over as President of the Watchtower Society and Fred Franz became Vice-President a few years later there were two basic threads that provided the framework for the modern version of Jehovah's Witnesses. The original version of "The Truth Shall Make You Free" (1943) was followed by the primary study boook "Let God Be True" (1946 - Green) which was just a few years later followed by a revision the original version of "The Truth Shall Make You Free" and a revised version of "Let God Be True" (1952 - Maroon).
It was during the 1950 and 1953 International Conventions in New York that the term "The Truth" first became synonymous with "The Organization" (i.e. The Watchtower). While rank and file JWs were slow to grab on to that nickname for the organization at first, still referring to the Society as "God's Organization" or themselves as simply Jehovah's Witnesses, the substitution of the term "the truth" became locked in as the descriptive name for the Watchtower ("The Truth") in 1968. It was during the International Convention that year that the study book "The Truth that leads to Eternal Life" was released.
The last three paragraphs of that book (pages 189,190) lock in the phrase "the way of the truth" as a substitute for "the way" (a term used by early Christians as a descriptive way to describe themselves and Christianity) as an approved and more or less formal way to describe the Watchtower.
I remember my parents first using the descriptive term "The Truth" in the early 1970s when they would plead with me to "come back to the Truth" or when they refused to consider any objections to the 1975 prophecy ("Johnny, we could never leave the Truth," " We could never take a stand against the Truth.")
I think it is quite interesting that Jehovah's Witnesses have switched from being "Christians" (noun) to members of the "Christian (adjective) Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses" and have all but abandoned the use of "Bible Students" to describe themselves except when they are in uncomfortable situations when the use of "Jehovah's Witnesses" might prove embarrassing or dangerous.
It must be uncomfortable to call their organization "The Truth" when it is forever changing what it believes and reversing positions on even some of their most basic teachings. Must be why "Let God Be True" is no longer their primary introductory study text.
JV
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7
AFFECTATIONS of INTEGRITY and other steaming piles of Poo
by Terry inthere is a marvelous greek word for what an actor does in a play as he assumes an identity other than his own.
and proceeds to affect behaviors which convince an audience every word and deed performed is the gods' honest truth.. do you know the word?.
the word is ??
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Juan Viejo2
Totally off topic...but I couldn't pass this up
Terry - by the way - I noted that your new gravatar reminds me of another sleuth / critic / highly intelligent person. You could look just like him because you already do...
1. Cut your hair very short.
2. Put on a medium to dark gray three-piece suit.
3. Wear some amber or light green sunglasses even when you are inside.
4. Wear a dark fedora set comfortably on your head but above your ears.
5. Show your intelligence is so far advanced over that of your enemies.
6. Plan to identify and maybe eliminate all of your enemies before you die.
Yeah, I think that would work. Never give them a break, Terry...
JV
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So who knows/knew William Malenfant?
by L3G insince a previous thread is getting comments that this guy may become a new gb member, the topic above is worth pursuing.
here's what i found out by searching so far---in other words, not much.
surely others must know something about the guy.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/198944/1/william-malenfant-learn-from-me-mp3-trinidad-2010-zone-talk.
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Juan Viejo2
Remember that there is a strong rumor going around that "being appointed" (to the Governing Body) is a sign that the person has been "annointed." Whether that "anointed" means that he is an actual member of the "heavenly class" or is just allowed to be equal to them on earth - that will be the theological question that will have to be sorted out.
Remember that Fred Franz made a direct statement back in the 1970s that there would be no more "anointed" anointed after the 1935 "class" passed on to their heavely reward. Of course, he was sure that Armageddon would come in 1975-76 - and he stubbed his toe on that one.
Let's face it - the Governing Body will have to deal with this issue sometime very soon - as there is always some turnover every ten years. Just because some CO or former DO out there claims to be "anointed" does not mean they are next in line. Same with the 8000+ partakers still drinking the kool-aid (sorry, I meant Manischewitz red table wine made from circumsized and kosher "blessed by rabbis" holy red grapes untouched by pigs or rabbits) - there must be a few quality elders out there who could step in and fake it as well as the current bunch on the GB.
My contact who has connections to WT HQ suggested this several months ago. [See halfway down the first post on the 3/21/2014 thread at http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/277270/1/Will-firing-the-DOs-be-the-first-step-to-a-new-Watchtower]
Namely "Appointed" = "Anointed." If the holy spirit whispers in the GB ears that Jehovah wants 38 year old wealthy business man elder COBE with a PBS documentary narrator's voice, they really have no choice but to select him as an add-on or replacement. After all - it is the HOLY SPIRIT! He'll wake up the next day just knowing (as they all did) that he is something special and the living is good at HQ and all the sisters will swoon over him when he gives a talk on TV.JW.org or at the next big convention. Yep, that's pretty much a sign that you are "anointed."
This is not a big deal for the Governing Body. After all, they know that they can say or do anything and get 100% compliance and acceptance from the R&F. If they don't, there will be repercussions like no more "Happy" dances at Kingdom Halls...
JV
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Has anyone else heard this about the GB??
by FeelingFree inok so me and my husband were talking to his mum again about why we are no longer going to meetings and got into another pointless discussion where she feels he needs to talk to an elder about his issue's blah, blah, blah... round and round it went...... the thing i wanted to ask was if anybody had heard that there wont be any gb after these one's die??
this is something she mentioned today and we have never heard of this ever.
so it means no more will be appointed and they will just die off!
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Juan Viejo2
Old Goat - I heard the same exact thing during both the 1953 and 1958 International Conventions. We were told that if we were children that we would soon see the end of this system of things by the time we reached maturity (21? 35? 40? 50? 65?) I am now over 70 and the end is not in sight. Did Knorr, Fred Franz, Hayden Covington and the other leaders of the Watchtower lie to us? Or did they just not know any more than the rest of us ignorant fools?
After I attended the 1960 or '61 district convention at Candlestick Park in San Francisco I asked my father if I could go to college at University of California at Riverside. With the exception of a single "F" grade due to a misunderstanding and an unbending teacher, I had managed straight A's in every one of my high school classes. So I had a grade point average of 3.5 or such. My problem was that I had not taken any college prep courses. And yet I had scholarship offers from at least 4 different sources. My father was quite sure that going to University would be a waste of my time as "Armageddon is just a few years away." But trade school was OK if I wanted to pursue that path. So I managed a small scholarship grant from the local newspaper to go to the local community college and took college freshman courses in Journalism and Graphic Arts (print shop). Not quite what I hoped for, and yet a chance to get started on my college education.
It was not Armageddon that brought my college education to an early end, but rather my father getting ill first, and then he and my mother deciding to move to "where the need was greater" in Nebraska "before Armageddon came." So I lost my room and board, my support system, and had to get a job to support myself. My father told me that he was sad that I would not be able to finish my college year, but that this was Jehovah's way of telling me that I needed to get my priorities straight and plan on a career at Bethel or as a missionary. He never gave up on the idea that Armageddon was just a few years away.
And yet it was another 8-10 years later that the 1975 prophecy was being touted. Again my father tried to lure me back into the organization, begging me to repent of my sins and commit myself to Jehovah's work. As he put it - I was just going through growing pains and searching for my path - but if I would go back to full time service and re-commit myself to Jehovah's work all would be fine. After all - Armageddon was just a few years away. He finally gave up sometime after 1985 when my mother passed away.
My parents stayed faithful to their end of life, and yet none of us kids really stayed in at all. I have one sibling and her family that are technically in, but they are far from being "successful" JWs for many reasons. They just continue on because that's how they wasted their entire lives so far, so why change now?
Sadly - I think those who are still in from my generation simply feel that "it is too late" for them to change. They may not personally agree with a single thing the Watchtower teaches, they may be completely bored out of their heads when they go to meetings, and they may cheat every way they can to get in their monthly minimum hours, but they do that because they feel they are too far down the road to turn around now. They have been brainwashed and brain dead far too long to try to change.
It's really so sad to see so many lives either destroyed or denigrated to meanlngless routine. I know that I am not alone in this view. I'm sure that many of you reading this thread can totally relate to what I am trying to say. Wasted lives. Wasted effort. Lost wages. Lost chances. Lost friends. Lost lives...
To the Watchtower - thank you very much...
JV
